Roanoke Tea Party statement on Jamie Radtke and George Allen
on January 27th, 2011 at 6:07 pmRoanoke Tea Party statement on Jamie Radtke and George Allen
With George Allen and Jamie Radtke having announced for the Republican nomination for US Senate, stories are circulating about the position of various Tea Party groups with regard to these candidates. The Roanoke Tea Party would like to express our opinion on this matter based on numerous interactions with Jamie Radtke, and our strong opinion on the candidacy of George Allen.
Jamie Radkte is touting her leadership in the Richmond Tea Party and the Virginia Tea Party Patriots Federation (VTPP) as one of her main selling points. As a former member of the VTPP, we found ourselves at odds with Mrs. Radkte and her tactics for manipulating the organization into support of the Repeal Amendment, and her her willingness to take credit in the media for the hard work of other individuals engaged in our common cause.
Our board was leery of participating with the VTPP when she first contacted us in February 2010, both because of her long-standing association with the Republican Party, and out of fear of anyone hoping to “organize” what had been wholly autonomous local groups. It was quickly obvious that Mrs. Radtke was building a Tea Party entity specifically as a platform to run for office, and we were flabbergasted by the ferocity she used in squashing internal dissent.
That being said, she would be a better alternative than George Allen to represent our Constitutional principles. Her tea party credentials are better than his, whose history of bad decisions and fiscal irresponsibility are egregious.
Allen’s track record is so bad that it overcomes our personal feelings towards Mrs. Radkte. If she can attack liberalism, socialism and progressivism as well as she attacked dissenting Tea Party groups, constitutional conservatism just might have a chance in the US Senate.
We are not endorsing any candidate, just giving an early analysis of this race to replace the absolutely unnaceptable Senator Webb in 2012. It is a shame that the Commonwealth of Virginia, cannot produce better candidates for the US Senate than these 3 individuals. Hopefully a better candidate will emerge soon and give us something we don’t have now, a real choice, versus selecting the lesser of three evils.
Gentlemen,
I am writing this reply with much trepidation, as we have always been amicable and respectful of each others views, and I wish to keep it that way.
As an early member of the VTPP, I have seen and participated in most of it’s successes and shortcomings, so I feel I am qualified to make my observations.
I must strongly disagree with some of your characterizations of Jamie Radtke. First of all, her leadership of the RTP, and the VTPP were nothing less than meteoric. She and her compatriots at RTP took it to a level of activism that is little seen anywhere else in the country. She should indeed be proud. She surrounded herself with great people and led them in a manner to produce those successes. Did she take credit for their hard work? Perhaps in the beginning, but as she has grown in her leadership skills, she has found a new voice which accredits those who have contributed to her success, worked beside her as equals, and pushed her to aspire for the lofty goal of becoming a true representative of conservative values.
Likewise she was able to lead a group of other leaders from the Grassroots organizations from across the state called the VTPP and did something that has been pretty much unequaled in the country. She did what the pundits call something that is akin to “Herding Cats”! She convinced them to work together for common goals, and put aside their own specific agendas. That is leadership! Was she entirely successful? No. That is evident by your group becoming a former member of the VTPP. Did she ferociously quash internal dissent, or maliciously manipulate the organization to support the Repeal Amendment? Categorically No! I personally know that Jamie went far beyond what she should have to placate members, and to keep everyone on point. I also know that the support for the Repeal Amendment was voted on and passed by the majority of the Federation and discussed numerous times in person and in copies of drafts put out for review by all. I also know that some thought that they were given short shrift at one of the meetings, but I was on the committee in question, and know that they were given 95% of that committees’ time to illuminate their agenda.
I can put forth numerous instances in which Jamie and I did not see eye to eye, or I specifically pointed out when I thought she was doing a disservice to herself, or to someone else. She always did what leaders should do, she listened, and she learned. If it was something that had merit, she took it to heart and acted on it. Perhaps not exactly as I would have anticipated, but acted with a sense of purpose and accomplishment. I cannot find fault with that.
Is she a better candidate for Senate than what we have now? I find your comments about Jamie to be prophetically true ( see below with a one word change )
If she can attack liberalism, socialism and progressivism as well as she (led) dissenting Tea Party groups, constitutional conservatism just might have a chance in the US Senate.
I have similar feelings towads you Parke and have always seen you in a positive light.
I believe you were involved in all of the discussions that lead to our dismissal from the VTPP, so I won’t rehash them here….other than to say that I was dissapointed that so many Tea Party groups were so easily misled.
A few items I’ll just toss out there for your consideration.
In retrospect, how much of Jamie’s polticial ambition drove decisions around the convention? Not including Bob Marhall on stage, giving George Allen a big role, allowing GOP candidates to campaign in the building and openly talking about these ambitions to poltiical movers and shakers.
In the runnup to support of the Repeal Amendment, Jamie informed Bob Marshall (when he wanted to speak out against it to our group) in the spring that the VTPP was going to support the Repeal Amendment….that I beleive was before we actually voted to support it…..
Could that have been motivated by her political motivations?
Other notable political voices have serious reservations about the Repeal Amendment and those voices were never really heard. Why do you think that is?
The FFVA and the dust up around that was just a small part of the overall plan to ensure that the Repeal Amendment looked like a grassroots effort and enhance her credentials for public office. Obviously when you only get 300 or so people to show up on lobby day (vs 3000 last year) that idea doesn’t have the grassroots support that Jamie would like others to think.
I submit these questions because I know that you are a Patriot and have a good heart. I hope you will do your own fact checking here and come to your own conclusions.
I would submit to you that Unity for unity’s sake is not a virtue. Time is short for salvation of our nation. Please look carefully at what I am saying and hopefully you will come to see the sad truth that I did not want to see either.
You may be surpised by this, but I was Jamie’s biggest supporter in the RTP. But when the facts became obvious to me (despite what I wanted to believe) I had to do what I did to sleep at night. Otherwise we should just disband our Tea Party groups and join the GOP.
I would warn that the Federation appears to be nothing but a wing of the GOP now anyway and perhaps a change of leadership will help. Now that we are shut out of the federation we are having much more success in pushing our agenda and working with dozens of patriot groups in SWVA who have never joined the federation because they saw from afar, what I came to see up close. That your group is too close to the GOP.
I write these things out of love and respect…and I hope you take them in the light they are intended.
I respectfully disagree with the characterization that Jamie used dictatorial powers to deal with dissention in the Federation. From my viewpoint as a long time member of the Federation that statement is simply untrue. I found her to have an open mind and willing to be interested to hear all sides of a debate.
I would like to get the record straight on several points. Jamie is not grabbing headlines on the backs of others. The Chairman or Chairwoman is the media spokesperson for the Federation. This is in the job description that has been published since the inception of the Federation.
Jamie was not the person pushing for the expulsion of Roanoke from the Federation. As the Membership Liaison for the Federation it was my duty to proceed with an action against Roanoke based on complaints filed by other Federation Members. I made all Members aware of these complaints. There were a number of E-mail exchanges prior to a Conference Call where all Federation members were invited to participate, hear the charges, discuss the charges and the course of actions (note: actions not one only choice), debate the charges and move to a vote. 2/3 of the members voted to expell Roanoke. And the charges were not because they disagreed with Jamie or others in the Federation who supported the Repeal Amendment. It had to do with violating our confidentiality rules and the personal attacks, in a long series of E-mails, against the Federation Leadership and CoLA Members with whom Roanoke disagreed. Roanoke was willing to destroy the Federation and all many had worked for in 2010 in order to pursue their own ends.
Roanoke was willing to pursue their own agenda in the face of wise counsel of the Attorney General who was concerned that FFVA could potential damage Virginia’s lawsuit against Obamacare.
I would like to wrap this up by taking some language from our membership rules. Each member organization should be autonomous, except in matters affecting other member organizations or the Federation. Roanoke had blatant disregard of the consequences of their actions. They had full knowledge that Federation had repeatedly stated its opposition and concerns about pursuing nullifiucation legislation. When I mention the Federation in this context there was nearly unanimous support for the Repeal Amendment with only one nay vote in June 2010. That nay vote was not in opposition to the Repeal amendment. It was that the member did not have the authority to support a consitutional convention without going back to his Board.
We did vote to support the repeal amendment in June 2010. That was one of the biggest mistakes our organization has made. We didn’t do our own due diligence and a little bit of digging would have revealed that Bob Marshall and other key Conservative leaders opposed the measure…something that was not brougt to light…despite Jamie’s knowledge of that opposition. We have done our own research now and reached our own conclusions …http://www.roanoketeaparty.com/repeal-amendment-why-its-a-waste-of-time/
Other groups have reached the same conclusion but were unwilling to raise their voice. We were.
As for the process of our removal, I have had an attorney review the string of events and he categorized our removal as “laughable.” I don’t consider factual statements about actions taken by VTPP leadership as attacks and I would remind you that a third of the Federation voted not to expell us…far from a unamimous group I would say.
I have had several inquiries from groups who, upon reflection, feel we were treated poorly and I know there have been changes made to your very bylaws to ensure another expulsion like this doesn’t occur. I have spoken to members of a Tea party Group that want to remove their leadership because they voted us out.
It seems that you are happier without us in the Federation and I know we are much happier working with groups in SWVA who are not beholden to the GOP….so…as I said when we were expelled…we will look for opportunities to work with your group where we can. Good luck and God bless.
I have only met Jamie Radtke once. ( http://RadtkeForSenate.com/ )
Though gracious and knowledgeable in that presentation I don’t doubt that Jamie Radtke can a fierce competitor.
I understand that you saw competitiveness when you deemed teamwork appropriate.
My hope is that you will encourage her – perhaps encourage her to double team with Corey Stewart – because if George Allen is going to have another maccaca moment we need to find out sooner than later.
My thoughts are that http://CoreyStewart.com/ might be ripe for election given his competence, character, and innovativeness.
Also Jamie Radtke is apt to offer us more surprises than George Allen and Jamie’s surprises are more apt to be delightful.
Even if Jamie Radtke does not win candidacy – this time – this time she stood to offer Virginia service before anyone else.
And Jamie appears to have raised the bar before the other candidates even started running.
It is going to be an interesting Virginia US Senate campaign.
See the Jan. 28th Richmond Times Dispatch article “Radtke addresses U.S. Senate Tea Party Caucus“ at http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2011/jan/28/tdmet02-radtke-addresses-us-senate-tea-party-caucu-ar-804489/
“U.S. Senate candidate and Virginia tea-party activist Jamie Radtke painted a bleak picture of America’s fiscal path in Washington on Thursday at the first meeting of the new Senate Tea Party Caucus.
Radtke was invited to speak by Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., who convened the committee along with Sens. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., and Mike Lee, R-Utah.”
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Constitutional-Reset/153837964664431?v=wall
http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=3uphzeyx6snfq&sort=discussionsStarted&page=1
http://www.facebook.com/russell.p.davis
Please don’t mistake our analysis of Jamie as an endorsement. While she is a better choice than Allen, that is not to say people should not be concerned about her lack of integrity.
“Competetiveness” is something our group is famous for…lyng and manipulation are not in our bag of tricks…but things Mrs. Radtke is intimately familar with.
While her positions on issues would likely synch up better with our group than Allen’s, her integrity issues during her time in the Tea party movement are serious and when the full story of all of her misdeeds is finally told, I doubt she will remain a viable candidate.
Thanks for the reply Chip.
Talent is precious and scarce.
So long as Jamie is not a strong front runner with solid grounds for judgment I tend to give her the benefit of doubt and inexperience.
She may rise above any current limitations that she has.
We will see.
Historically, revolutions are expected to eat their children.
I think we can do better than that.
When you leave a trail of people behind you that you have stepped on, abused and mistreated it’s hard to turn around and get those people to charge out and fight for you. Her inherent limitations (lack of q rating, not being a stellar public speaker) can be fixed or improved. A lack of integrity…..well Jesus can fix anything but paint me skeptical on Jamie.
The Roanoke Tea Party is just one of many that have had a bad experience with Jamie. If our situation was unique it would be one thing; then Jamie’s argument (encapsulated by some previous posts from her Tea Party supporters) that we were a bad seed and Jamie had no choice might hold make some sense and could be seen as an isolated incident.
In fact what happened to us is relatively minor compared to actions she took towards others in the Richmond area. The rift between the Roanoke Tea Party and the VTPP is just the tip of the iceberg.
While Jamie may be philosophically similar to us….how long will it take for her to abandon those principles when the going gets tough? That takes integrity, and that is something she has not shown in her public dealings.
I would remind every member of every Constitutional group that your conceration and concern focused on candidates for Congress is a total distraction. All focus should be directed at efforts to acomplish positive effect at the State Level. It is from actions taken from State Level that any significant change will ever occur. Our system of government has systimaticall evolved so that those in power at the Federal Level have become our Masters, immutable to change and electing one or 20 Senators will not produce any significant change. Change must come from the State level where the local electorate can control representatives and the actions they take. Much less time, effort and money is of greater importance that the wasted efforts and money trying to change an unchangable evil. Give up your efforts at trying to change from the top down and effectively change from the bottom up.
By the way I am a Constitutional Republican – meaning that the Constitution is (politically speaking) 1st, Jesus 2nd, Justice 3rd and Party last. If you are realistic one MUST either run as a Republican or Democrat lacking $$ millions to run as an independent.
To Joh12711:
Jesus 2nd????? Really???? Ouch.
John,
A quick scan of our website and recent activities will easily confirm that our efforts are primarily aimed at the local and state level. In theory, we are generally in agreement. Efforts in opposition of Wind power, subsidized bus trips, a bevy of state legislative initiatives all speak to that….
In fact, I make this point in a speech I gave in Oct. in Richmond. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtGrUML7ddc
We do need to be involved at some level in all of the issues that are destroying the Constitution and electing bad US Senators like Jim Webb certainly plays a role.
So we feel it is incumbent on the RTP to help analyze these races… particularly in the case of Jamie Radtke, who we have had numerous interactions with and (as you can see from the posts above) a strong opinion about. Plus we would like to remind people about some of the sad history of George Allen’s political history.
We are big enough to do both, but we agree that the bulk of our efforts should be at the state level…as at that level we can best reassert 10th Amendment federalism through nullification.
Nothing Mr. Shiffman states above in defense of Jamie Radtke is verifiable. Should we just trust his word?
According to an e-mail I received from him not too long ago, he and his wife helped Radtke set up the “Federation,” and both are old friends of such establishment Republicans as Bolling and McDonnell. Both also joined Jamie at the top of the “Federation.”
Why should we expect Mr. Shiffman to be a credible purveyor of information about Jamie’s character and history as the VTPP leader? Could there be a person of character and integrity working side by side with Jamie Radtke and Karen Hurd in the enterprise preposterously called “the Virginia Tea Party Patriots Federation,” for which even the name is a fraud? What kind of a tea party federation is it that is set up by Jamie Radtke and her establishment Republican friends, who end up in control, with the “member organizations” “federated” by Radtke in a manner ‘the pundits call something that is akin to “Herding Cats”! ‘? (Or is it “Hurding Cats”?)
Shiffman et al deny that the VTPP is more about Jamie than the Tea Party cause. Perhaps he will care to explain here – something I have not been able to get him to do through a private e-mail – why the VTPP leadership sought to influence the constituent organizations, many of whose members are supporters of Bob Marshall, to vote for Jamie in an online senatorial poll in which Bob Marshall and Ken Cuccinelli were also choices? Why not let the best choice decided by these people themselves? Is it maybe because the members of organizations Jamie herded into VTPP owe something to Jamie, or maybe they do not have a brain of their own to figure out who is the best choice for Senate?
PLEASE NOTE THIS QUESTION DIRECTED TO MR SHIFFMAN AND SEE IF HE WILL ANSWER IT.
Jacob Roginsky
Wow! You guys sound like babies! You do not like Jamie Radtke because you personally have issues regarding you, the Federation and something about the Repeal Amendment. Wow! Is this about you or the citizens of Virginia? You then turn and say she will do good to fight for our principles, but the last line of your article says she will do for now, we just have to pick the between the two evils. Now you have gone on a lone journey to call her evil. Who writes your articles and who decides what goes into them? I suggest that you all get together and think clearly before you publicly tarnish the reputation of another Tea Party supporter and candidate. A house divided cannot stand and your comments only divide.
I’m sorry you feel that way. There is always a debate, in looking for support of a candidate, on the “character” issue. If someone has demonstrated issues that show a lack of integrity, is that not a germane issue? While a house divided cannot stand, isn’t unity just for the sake of unity the root cause of the GOP issues over the past 30 years? So we should just ignore or (to use a sports analogy) swallow our whistle on the issue of Jamie’s time in the Tea Party movement….especially since that is the main justification for her candidacy? I would like nothing better to have a great candidate from the Tea Party movement win the Senate seat in 2012. The question is….is Jamie a great candidate? Our experience would indicate that she is not.
Gilbert,
I would certainly not say that Jamie is the lesser of two evils. To me she is the most unacceptable candidate not only because I do not believe our cause will ever rise in importance for Jamie to the level of her political ambitions, but because her political ambitions are contrary to the interests of the cause, and, furthermore, because she has already demonstrated a good ability to manipulate our natural allies to serve her instead of serving the cause.
I would like to have a chance to convince you and others of the correctness of my above-stated positions, in particular on the importance for the Virginia Tea Parties to reject Jamie Radtke as a candidate for Senate. It is for this reason I asked Mr. Shiffman to state his position on whether it was correct for the VTPP leadership, which at the time included Jamie Radtke, to solicit the members of the VTPP participating organizations to vote for Radtke in an online poll that featured other Tea Party celebrities, particularly Bob Marshall. I wish to demonstrate to everyone that Jamie’s “Federation” is a fraud on our cause, and that it is run by Jamie and her cronies for their ends. I want you to see that these people not only lack the character to honestly compete for the Tea Party support and endorsement, but run for the bush when they are called out on it.
By the way …. Mr. Shifma-a-a-an, where are yo-u-u-u-u-u? I can’t hear you-u-u-u-u. Will you answer my question????????
Jacob,
In our original analysis we referred to Jamie as the lesser of 3 evils.
You and i have talked at length about Jamie and her misdeeds so I am certainly not going to come to Jamie’s defense…much.
But I would say that philosophically she is certainly a more Constitutionally solid candidate than Allen or Webb. And she is a rough and tumble politician….I doubt she woukld have allowed herself to be “Maccawed.”
Webb, I think we all agree is an abject failure at defending his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. Allen was as well as both the Governor and as a Senator.
I don’t mean to minimize Jamie’s “issues” as I think they will ultimately be her undoing as a serious candidate….(as they rightfully should be)…..
But if I were forced to make a Hobson’s choice….I’d pick Jamie.
Fortunately for me, I’ve pledged not to select the lesser of two (or three) evils anymore…since the lesser one is still evil.
Has anyone noticed, from the comments here and on other blogs, that if you don’t support Jamie Radtke the reason must be because you are 1) disingenuous, 2) a “baby”, 3) biased due to the Repeal Amendment, 4) not a true tea partier or 5) have some personal animus or similar motivation?
First of all, regarding the Repeal Amendment, Gilbert, how is that opposing a candidate because he/she vigorously supports a policy that you do not, considered somehow un-fair? If Candidate A supports something I oppose, and Candidate B opposes something I oppose, why should I unite behind Candidate A just for the sake of unity?
(Gilbert, are you the Gilbert W. who is on the board of the Richmond Tea Party?)
I thought “Don’t Tread on Me” meant the movement in general, not a particular person. My mistake I guess.
Debbie,
You can handle the commetary from here on out.
Chip,
To me the Constitution is worthless if it is not first and foremost about the Bill of Rights and the government of, by, and for the people. The manner in which VTPP was established and run, the manner in which Roanoke Tea Party was expelled, the manner in which the organization has been turned to serve Jamie tell me that Radtke has no real appreciation of for or loyalty to the Constitution.
Furthermore, to me there would be more to the outcome of the senatorial race than whose philosophy of governance will be implemented by the next senator from Virginia. If Radtke won and that helped her and her buddies continue to control the Virginia Tea Parties, that would be a big price of her victory to me in and of itself.
I am happy to observe though, that even though you and I disagree here, I am fairly confident that the Roanoke Tea Oarty will not declare me disruptive, issue a 15-point indictment asserting complaints from unnamed complainants, and boot me off the web site.
Jacob Roginsky
Jacob,
I couldn’t agree more with your statement. “To me the Constitution is worthless if it is not first and foremost about the Bill of Rights and the government of, by, and for the people.” There is no disagreement on that…
The point of our position is not to excuse Jamie for her behavior. The main point is that for all of the issuse that we had with Jamie and the VTPP (and you must remember that we were on the receiving end of this stuff and there is a fair amount of emotion tied to this issue), Allen is even worse than Jamie.
We sure do hope there is another choice!
And as you can see from the 20 comments on ths string we are always open to legitimate debate. If your ideas can’t hold up in the arena of ideas….you might need to change them. Your thoughtful comments are always appreciated.
From what I see here , it looks like we will have Jim Webb, D. for another term and he will not have to campaign for it..
Wher are the adults?
Since the election is next year, it certainly behooves all of us to have an honest conversation about the candidates that will run against Webb now…so we can get the candidate that best represents our values. I don’t see where that is childish.
This article seems to be giving courage to some additional candidates who may be better opposition for Webb next year…so I see no downside to us having an honest conversation about the 2 declared candidates as of February 2011.
Jamie and George have serious issues and if we know them, you can bet Webb and his peeps (as well as the MSM) will dig them up too.
If the GOP saddles us with a dog next year, the only action we may be able to do in good conscience would be to remind voters of Webb’s absolutely HORRIFIC Senate career. It takes some politicans decades to rack up as many bad votes as Webb had in just one term.
If we are going to be true to our principles, we have to do our best to get a good candidate…and not one who is less bad than Webb.
I sure do hope that makes sense.
A copy of this morning’s posting of mine on bearingdrift.com,
__________________________________________________
Toni says that neither I, nor Yale, nor Jaime, nor Bob Marshall, nor Cory “can win against the mighty GOP machine and George Allen.” For the record, I have not had any interest whatsoever in running for Senate, and I presume Toni’s point was simply that the GOP machine is at this time unbeatable by the Tea Parties in Virginia.
In his post, Toni makes a number of good points, but, in my view, it is the above observation that is of the greatest importance. Although I disagree with Toni’s apparent implication that no tea partier can win against the establishment’s picks, I see such to be too few to matter, especially given the reality that most of them are just as clueless and self-serving as the establishment’s choices.
It is the real Tea Party story that two years into its existence it is still so poorly equipped to take on the establishment, and the fact that today both some of the media and the GOP establishment are so willing to credit and side with the Tea Parties is a testimony to how little they think of the movement.
It is high time for the Tea Party to ponder its place in the unfolding history. Unfortunately, the movement is poorly equipped for that as well. From its inception, it has been ruled by emotion, fear, and opportunists who feed on those. Such environment is perfect for launching political careers of self-serving demagogues, but is terrible for the development of good understanding of the movement’s natural mission, as well \as building a winning vision for its success.
More than in its money, the power of the GOP machinery rests in it being in the hands of some of the most highly skilled, knowledgeable and brightest manipulators of the ordinary people. And if, as Toni properly pointed out, the Tea Party’s message is essentially the same as that of the GOP, what chance does the Tea Party have to compete with its establishment without a comparable corporate brain? Not a chance!!!
In Virginia, the Tea Party “Federation’s” response to the national GOP planners like Carl Rove, Newt Gingrich, and a host of brilliant people working behind the scenes has been cat herders and dog catchers like Radtke, Hurd, etc., people who could not develop a winning vision for the movement even if they had the movement’s best interests at heart and at the forefront of their ambitions.
Before the Tea Party, or any other grassroots movement is in any position to wrestle with the power establishment, it must become a movement of reflection, foresight, and ideas.
Today the Virginia Tea Party organizations can at best pass semi-consequential legislation and, possibly, help elect a few people that will make no lasting impact on the life in the Commonwealth.
It is high time for deep reflections.